Episode 2208 notes

Today, Stephen Combs and Ryan Ross from BrokersBloc, and how their approach to this business is significantly different than anything I've seen out there. And if you're a broker and you're looking for a better way to do business, an innovative way to do business, this show is a must-listen!

Stephen: “We're just trying to show brokers that there are alternative solutions out there, and there's a million out there, some really good, some really bad. So we have carefully vetted all of our carrier partners, looked at the paper that they're on on the reinsurance, the networks, the PBMs, and make sure that the package is a cohesive tech stack that bundles together nicely, that has a good user experience.

We have built a suite of products that are, again, non-disruptive to the employee and the employers, but they can save them money on some of the low-hanging fruit things, such as the pharmacy benefit manager and some steerage as well around hospital claims…”

This is Season 22 Ep 8 of America’s Healthcare Advocate. I’m Cary Hall

Learn about BrokersBloc: https://brokersbloc.com/

As always, if you need help or have something to share, contact me using this form on my website and let me know what's on your mind, the issues you are dealing with, or any other health, healthcare, or health insurance questions or concerns. Visit: https://www.americashealthcareadvocate.com/contact-us

Episode 2208 Transcript:

00;00;01;14 - 00;00;05;15

Announcer

And now America's Healthcare Advocate, Cary Hall.

00;00;05;20 - 00;00;25;26

Cary Hall

Hello, America. Welcome to America's Healthcare Advocates show Broadcasting Coast to coast across the USA. Here on the HIA Radio Network, you can find out more about me and this show by going to the website AmericasHealthcareAdvocate.com. AmericasHealthcareAdvocate.com. You have questions? Send me an email. I get a whole bunch of them, but I answer each and every one of them.

00;00;25;26 - 00;00;45;23

Cary Hall

So we want to thank all of you out there in the audience for listening to this broadcast. As we broadcast across the country, we just added two new affiliates. I'll talk about that a little later in the show, but also 16 podcast platforms and 648,000. This continues to amaze me, 648,000 downloads and listens on our podcast and YouTube.

00;00;45;23 - 00;01;10;19

Cary Hall

So thank you to all of you out there that pay attention to this broadcast is greatly appreciated. If you are looking for help, if you're chronologically challenged, or you're looking for an ACA, Obamacare plan, you might want to give the lovely Carolee Steele a call over RPS Benefits by Design 877-385-2224. She helps people all over the country with Medicare, and with the ACA issues.

00;01;10;19 - 00;01;27;27

Cary Hall

So if you want to give her a call 877-385-2224 the happy to help you anywhere in the country find coverage. So we're going to do a show today. This a little different than what we usually do. The show is kind of centered on brokers, but it also is a show that I want employers to listen to because you're going to learn a lot today.

00;01;27;29 - 00;01;36;19

Cary Hall

In studio with me today is Stephen Combs, founder of BrokersBloc. Welcome, Stephen. Thank you. You've been here multiple times, but you've been off camera, so I got you this time. You did?

00;01;36;21 - 00;01;38;17

Stephen Combs

Yeah. You got me this time. Yeah. All right.

00;01;38;19 - 00;01;42;14

Cary Hall

And Ryan Ross, who's marketing and operations director. Welcome. Ryan.

00;01;42;14 - 00;01;42;22

Ryan Ross

Thank you.

00;01;42;25 - 00;02;15;11

Cary Hall

Glad to have both of you here. So these two young men, they're young by me. Okay. Because I'm 76 years old, as we all know. Okay. But their approach to this business is significantly different than anything I've seen out there. And if you're a broker and you're looking for a better way to do business, an innovative way to do business, I strongly suggest you pay attention to this broadcast, because, you know, I've been doing this for 27 years, so 22 on the radio, according to Dave Thiessen, my producer, and I read the book.

00;02;15;14 - 00;02;40;06

Cary Hall

So this young man, Ryan Ross wrote a book. It's called benefits with friends. It's a really good book. It's written as a novel. Okay. We'll talk more about it. But, my point in saying this to you is, you're never too old to learn. I learned things in reading that the way they do things, the things that they're doing to improve the broker experience, to improve what brokers do for their clients.

00;02;40;06 - 00;02;54;17

Cary Hall

They help brokers do a better job. And that's really what we're going to talk about today. So welcome again to both of you. So let's just start off with how did this all come about Stephen. You live in Atlanta. He lives in new Jersey. How did this all come about?

00;02;54;19 - 00;03;09;21

Stephen Combs

So I was a broker in the metro Atlanta market for about seven years. I was working with my father. Came in, and the book kind of highlights this. But, I always joke that my dream as a child was to be a benefits broker, and.

00;03;09;23 - 00;03;14;16

Cary Hall

Okay, that's an unusual dream, Stephen. I guess I don't think Ryan had that dream as a child. But anyway.

00;03;14;18 - 00;03;20;17

Stephen Combs

And my backup plan is to be a professional motocross racer. Okay, so glad that the first one worked out for me. You know?

00;03;20;20 - 00;03;21;24

Cary Hall

Yeah, it's a lot safer.

00;03;21;24 - 00;03;46;02

Stephen Combs

Okay? It's a lot safer. Yeah. So, anyways, was actually living out in Utah, after college, selling property and casualty insurance, and my dad had some health issues back in Georgia, and my mom had actually called me and said, hey, he needs your help. You know, he's, you know, having some health issues. So I flew back in and started working with this agency, and I actually did fall in love with the benefits industry, worked with him for quite some time.

00;03;46;02 - 00;04;06;18

Stephen Combs

So selling small group middle size benefits. And we had worked with several general agencies in that market and just saw lots of gaps between the carriers, the access, the coverage, the things that are innovative that a lot of GA just don't seem to have. And so I wanted to create a general agency that offered different solutions for brokers that I couldn't get from the ones in that market.

00;04;06;21 - 00;04;07;07

Cary Hall

And you did.

00;04;07;09 - 00;04;08;05

Stephen Combs

And I did. Correct?

00;04;08;05 - 00;04;21;23

Cary Hall

Yeah, right. Let's talk a little about you. What brought you into this sphere and how did you get involved? With Steven? And then the two of you come together and establish what I think is a pretty amazing company. BrokersBloc.

00;04;21;23 - 00;04;29;11

Ryan Ross

So I am not a benefits guy. I didn't know benefits was around or a thing until. Other than, like, experiencing.

00;04;29;11 - 00;04;30;22

Cary Hall

Minding you're own healthcare.

00;04;30;24 - 00;04;31;05

Ryan Ross

Yeah.

00;04;31;09 - 00;04;32;02

Cary Hall

Okay.

00;04;32;04 - 00;04;39;20

Ryan Ross

I didn't know about benefits, but I know a lot more about marketing. I came from the marketing world and marketing and ad sales. I worked for Dow Jones.

00;04;39;27 - 00;04;44;23

Cary Hall

Yeah, I saw that Dow Jones, you worked at Dow Jones and you also worked at Finance?

00;04;44;26 - 00;05;04;14

Ryan Ross

Yeah. And then a marketing technology company in London. So like my background, as you know, my role at BrokersBloc is marketing and operations. That's kind of what I've always focused on. I started my own marketing agency in 2021, and eventually I'm like, I need to find the niche and the niche. So I was like, okay, I know the world of financial advising.

00;05;04;14 - 00;05;26;13

Ryan Ross

So I said, I'm going to help financial advisors who sometimes help with benefits, right? As we all know John Kuhlmann, he does that to but I was speaking at an event. I was reached out to by a guy named Don Chemi. He told me about, oh, this is NABIP, right? I am a member of NAFA, which is for insurance and financial advisors.

00;05;26;15 - 00;05;42;28

Ryan Ross

But this guy reached out and he's like, hey, can you speak about marketing at this event in Atlanta? I'm like, I'm in New Jersey. You want me to just fly down. And he was like, yes. But I'm like, all right, stage time is money time. Yeah. So if you can get on stage, do that. And this is what I advise brokers do.

00;05;43;01 - 00;05;44;04

Cary Hall

I used to do a lot of it.

00;05;44;10 - 00;06;00;20

Ryan Ross

It's it's a really good way to just generate authority. So I said let's do that. And one of the people on the board of NABIP was Steven. And he reached out to me separately. Right. He reached out to me on a Monday. He's like, can we speak later today? And I'm like, I'm booked today, but let's meet tomorrow.

00;06;00;20 - 00;06;16;08

Ryan Ross

I didn't know where this guy was coming from, honestly. But I'm like, wait, I like looked in my email and I found like, oh, he's with NABIP. And I thought it was about that. But then he told me about something totally different, and I told him I'm like, I'm not aware of what benefits are how it works at all.

00;06;16;11 - 00;06;32;13

Ryan Ross

So that being said, I know a lot about marketing and he's like, all right, that's fine. You know, about the financial services industry. It's kind of like that. And so I just had to learn a lot about it. So we met what last March. And here we are. And we've been through a lot last year and will continue to grow.

00;06;32;15 - 00;06;54;05

Cary Hall

Well, you you what you've created Stephen and Ryan is unique. I don't know anybody else that's doing what you're doing. There's a lot of GAs out there. Okay. I was never a fan of GAs. And definitely not a fan of FMOs. In fact, all of my contracts with Benefits by Design over the 27 years I did it were direct with the carriers.

00;06;54;05 - 00;07;09;24

Cary Hall

I wouldn't work with an FMO, but if I had a GA out there, that could provide the kind of things that you guys are doing that would have been a different world. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about what you see as your mission with BrokersBloc. Before we go to the break here. We got about three minutes.

00;07;09;29 - 00;07;36;08

Stephen Combs

Yeah. So our mission is we we always said we're not anti-BUCA we're non BUCA. But if it's, agency by general agency. So we're not trying to disparage the BUCAs We're just trying to show brokers that there are there's alternative solutions out there, and there's a million out there, some really good, some really bad. So we have carefully vetted all of our carrier partners, looked at the paper that they're on the reinsurance, the networks, the PBMs, make sure that the package is cohesive.

00;07;36;08 - 00;07;55;03

Stephen Combs

It's a cohesive tech stack that bundles together nicely, that has a good user experience. So we just built a suite of products that are, again, non disruptive to the employee and the employers, but they can save the money on some of the low hanging fruit things such as the pharmacy benefit manager and some steerage as well around you know hospital claims.

00;07;55;03 - 00;08;10;13

Cary Hall

I'm going to talk a lot, but we're going to do a deep dive on some of those things as we go through the show. But I want to explain what that term BUCA means for you and the audience that are listening. Is that what are what are you talking about? That's Blue Cross, that’s United, that’s Cigna that's who we're talking about here.

00;08;10;13 - 00;08;33;26

Cary Hall

We're talking about the big major carriers across the country, that that, that basically control the markets right now. So when you talk about BUCA you know, what what happens there is there's not a lot of competition anymore between the carriers, primarily because especially when you're talking about small group, medium size group, because of ACA, who sets the regulations, this is what you can offer.

00;08;34;02 - 00;08;53;05

Cary Hall

You know, someone said that basically what Obamacare did that turned insurance carriers into utilities, which is pretty much correct when you think about it, because the rates are set by the different states, they have to get approval to set a rate, and they're only allowed to offer certain things, a certain amount of money they're allowed to make, or the rest of it has to go back if they exceed that profit.

00;08;53;05 - 00;09;10;21

Cary Hall

So it's a completely different world than it used to be before Obamacare. And that's why I think there's a need for what these two young men are doing out there. And especially if you're a broker, if you're a medium size broker, you're a small broker and you don't have the tools, you don't have the ability to do what they do.

00;09;10;26 - 00;09;29;02

Cary Hall

They can add a lot. We're going to talk a lot about that today, and you're going to give you information I think could make a difference to a lot of you out there. If you want to go to their website, it's brokersbloc.com. brokersbloc.com is spelled bloc by the way brokersbloc.com. We'll be right back after the break.

00;09;29;02 - 00;09;46;10

Cary Hall

You're listening to America's Healthcare Advocate broadcasting here on the HIA Radio Network. Coast to coast Cross, USA. Stay right there. We've got more.

00;09;46;13 - 00;10;22;02

Cary Hall

To do. Welcome back. You're listening to America's Healthcare Advocate Show broadcasting coast to coast across the USA here on the HIA Radio Network. My producers, Mr.. Dave Thiessen behind the cameras, the man who puts all these shows up on all the podcast platforms and the YouTube platform. And Garner Cowdrey, who does all the work behind the microphones, putting all the audio together as we broadcast Coast to Coast, by the way, two new affiliates, we have WFEA-AM in Manchester, New Hampshire, and another new affiliate in Charlotte, North Carolina WRHI-AM and FM.

00;10;22;04 - 00;10;41;08

Cary Hall

We're on for two hours every Saturday. I guess they really like us. We thank you all. Make you part of America's Healthcare Advocate broadcasting family. Welcome to the network. We're happy to have you in studio with me, Stephen Combs. And Ryan Roth. They are from BrokersBloc. The website for them, by the way is BrokersBloc.com. BrokersBloc.com.

00;10;41;08 - 00;11;02;14

Cary Hall

Let me tell you about these two young men. They're kind of amazing young men as far as I'm concerned. Stephen is the founder of BrokersBloc. Stephen helps insurance brokers cut through the noise confidentiality, identify high performing, trustworthy vendors in an industry where brokers are constantly bombarded with vendor pitches. Are they ever I should know, okay, what he's doing basically is creating an alternative here.

00;11;02;22 - 00;11;22;12

Cary Hall

Their mission is to empower brokers to move beyond the default of brokers with clients that are better, safer, smarter benefits solutions for their clients and their clients are brokers. So this is where this makes a big difference, which is why I wanted to read a little bit about his bio. Ryan has worked at the intersection of marketing and financial services to 2011.

00;11;22;14 - 00;11;46;23

Cary Hall

He founded an independent financial advisor marketing company in 2021. He spent ten years at Dow Jones. That must have been really interesting, Ryan. And then the Financial Times, which is another interesting newspaper. You ever see that pink newspaper in the airport? That's the Financial Times. It's a pretty interesting newspaper to read. And then, he went on, to produce and hosted over 1000 webinars and 250 podcasts.

00;11;47;00 - 00;12;06;22

Cary Hall

And he also wrote the book. And I think it's kind of amazing. The book benefits with friends, which I read. All right. I'll talk a bit more about that in this segment. So, pretty remarkable young man. He's run 16 triathlons and three Ironman triathlon. So, he's also a pretty good athlete. So let's talk about this book for me because I was fascinated by this.

00;12;06;22 - 00;12;19;11

Cary Hall

I told you when you came in here that, I get a lot of people on this show that write books. Most of them. Yeah. I try to read them out of courtesy. Most of them are boring as hell and dry. And they're how you're going to do this or how you're going to do that.

00;12;19;18 - 00;12;39;17

Cary Hall

So you wrote this is a novel, and I'm reading this and I'm going, That's Stephen in there. That's that Stephen did the book. Now I've got to get that part in a minute. And some of the characters in the book, Porterhouse, who has his meetings at the Texas Roadhouse, and it's colorfully written and it's written in a way, that you enjoy reading it.

00;12;39;17 - 00;13;01;01

Cary Hall

It's not a boring, dry read. Okay. So I urge you, if you're a book, this is online at Amazon. I bought it on Amazon. I forget what the hell it cost. And I read it on, online at Amazon, on my, on my Kindle. But it's really an interesting book. And here's what I'll say about this. It kind of encapsulates their philosophy of what they're doing and how they're doing it.

00;13;01;03 - 00;13;06;17

Cary Hall

And it does it in a colorful and interesting way. The interesting part is when you wrote this, you didn't even know him.

00;13;06;22 - 00;13;12;11

Ryan Ross

I didn't well, I knew him, but I didn't know the story about how he got involved in the business. He took over his.

00;13;12;11 - 00;13;14;19

Cary Hall

Father's agency just like he just told.

00;13;14;22 - 00;13;27;00

Ryan Ross

So weird, I didn't know this. The original plot was like this guy that was in benefits, and he he just needed to modernize. But I realized, like, okay, I, I wrote that to learn about the benefits industry.

00;13;27;00 - 00;13;28;00

Cary Hall

You did a pretty good job.

00;13;28;05 - 00;13;46;15

Ryan Ross

I appreciate that because it hopefully comes out in the book. But what like I wrote it thinking, okay, this guy just needs to modernize. But that assumes he's been in the industry and like, he should know some of these terms. So I had to change the plot and I had to be like, you need to create some stakes in the beginning and some drastic thing.

00;13;46;22 - 00;13;52;20

Ryan Ross

It's just a narrative tool. So I'm like, okay, guys, maybe his dad dies. And so he's thrust into his.

00;13;52;20 - 00;13;55;29

Cary Hall

Dad didn't die, by the way. So we all know Steven's dad is still alive,

00;13;55;29 - 00;14;17;09

Ryan Ross

but he this guy's thrust into the industry and I'm like, I like food. And so I'm gonna name it al dente, which you did, right? And he was like a pasta manufacturer. So I knew pasta manufacturing. And he had to learn benefits. He had to get a license, and then he needed to do marketing. So it's for like, yes, it's for benefits brokers to maybe brush up their skills on benefits.

00;14;17;09 - 00;14;21;23

Ryan Ross

They probably don't need to do that, but it's more of like a marketing instructional book.

00;14;21;23 - 00;14;43;20

Cary Hall

No, I would disagree with that. I think that what's in here? Yeah. Like I said, I'm 76 years old, and I was kind of amazed. Some of the things you put in here that I saw as pieces, of things I did not know about, things that I didn't understand. And I said to you guys off camera earlier, if I had known you before, when I had Benefits by Design, I would have been one of your first clients.

00;14;43;22 - 00;15;02;03

Cary Hall

Because your innovation and your thought process on what you're bringing to the table allows. I see your niche as medium and small brokers. I don't know if that's what you see it as, but that's where I see guys that don't have and gals that don't have those kinds of tools or resources that you bring to the parties. So talk a little bit about that.

00;15;02;07 - 00;15;21;22

Stephen Combs

Medium and small brokers are their bread and butter. We do work with some larger ones, but most of our brokers are definably the small or medium sized brokers who need help with technology, with quoting, with spreadsheets and all those sorts of things. The larger brokers are more so looking just for the carriers that they don't want to necessarily maybe take the time to vet.

00;15;21;24 - 00;15;22;20

Stephen Combs

I understand that.

00;15;22;20 - 00;15;38;19

Cary Hall

Like like our PSM Nebraska GigCare, which we're a new carrier market, four years old. We worked with you guys, etcetera, etcetera. John Kuhlmann, who, by the way, is in the book, which I think is kind of interesting. Yeah. I'll see him up here next week, but, Yeah. So keep going. This is interesting.

00;15;38;19 - 00;15;58;24

Stephen Combs

Yeah. So we work with carriers that are, I mean, well-funded, you know, strong networks. Well, well-capitalized, you know, good tech stacks that are seamless for the for the broker, the employer and the employee. And so we help the brokers identify kind of cut through the slop because there's hundreds of vendors that pop up every single year. They all promise the same things.

00;15;58;26 - 00;16;14;01

Stephen Combs

And then you go and rollover group and then it's a disaster. Right? We we we avoid those things because when I was a broker, I was always looking for the next shiny object. And so I've learned over the years of doing it how to avoid those disastrous situations.

00;16;14;03 - 00;16;32;24

Cary Hall

That's funny when you said the next new shiny object, because it makes me think, Ryan, of how many those next new shiny objects are out there. And they last a year or two years and they start to crash and burn. And then the broker that I, there's one particular group from a number of years ago that was selling group health insurance, and it was like the greatest things of sliced bread.

00;16;32;26 - 00;16;53;03

Cary Hall

And they went belly up. And one particular broker I know got stuck with $1 million worth of claims to pay. And another broker who's a friend of mine wound up with half $1 million claims to pay. So vetting these guys, these these companies that are coming out and and there are there's a lot of innovation going on right now because the BUCA plans, in my humble opinion, are crashing and burning.

00;16;53;08 - 00;17;16;25

Cary Hall

I don't see how this is sustainable in the long run, because that the heavy regulation, you look at some of the increases that came through last year, they're massive 23%, 30% in Florida, I think it was as high as 38% in some cases. I mean, the the the industry, it's boxed in and it can't seem to figure out how to get around that.

00;17;16;25 - 00;17;44;25

Cary Hall

And Congress is doing nothing. Okay. So as usual. All right. So you're not getting anything from the politicians to change it. So what you guys are doing is bringing alternatives to the table and then showing these alternatives to the brokers. But talk a little bit about what you're doing on the marketing side to help brokers gain visibility because you've got, you know, the the podcast, the the webinars, the things that you're doing it, you talk about in here, a lot of brokers would go, I don't know if I can do that.

00;17;44;28 - 00;18;02;17

Cary Hall

So we're coming up on the break, so let's hold that right there. When we come back from the break, I want you to get into that and talk about how that's not really that difficult to do. You illustrate that in the book, and we'll talk about that when we come back from the break. The website is BrokersBloc.com. BrokersBloc.com.

00;18;02;19 - 00;18;21;19

Cary Hall

There's a lot of information up there. Take time to reach out to these guys. And by the way they have a thing called the 300 Club. We're going to talk about that in the next segment. If you're an employer and you've got a broker who's lazy and not doing his job, reach out to these guys. They have a network of brokers that are vetted and they're first class, and they'll be happy to help you.

00;18;21;24 - 00;18;45;19

Cary Hall

BrokersBloc.com. Stay right there. We'll be right back after the break. You're listening to America's Healthcare Advocate broadcasting coast to coast across the USA. Here on the HIA Radio Network.

00;18;45;21 - 00;19;08;15

Cary Hall

Welcome back. You're listening to America's Healthcare Advocate show broadcasting coast to coast across USA here on the HIA Radio Network, in studio with me, Stephen Combs and Ryan Roth from BrokersBloc. Their website is BrokersBloc.com. BrokersBloc.com. A lot of great information up there. And I keep talking about this book because, Ryan wrote a book that I think is pretty cool.

00;19;08;18 - 00;19;32;20

Cary Hall

This is benefits with friends. We're going to talk a little bit more about it here. So one of the things that you spend a lot of time on that book is marketing. So let's talk about how you help the piece in there on podcasts, which I like, you know, here we do podcasting different than what you're talking about doing, but, you know, to suggest to a broker that they do a podcast, most of these guys and gals are going to go, what are you talking about?

00;19;32;20 - 00;19;40;26

Cary Hall

I can't do something like that. So describe you do it in the book, but describe how you actually do this and why you think this is beneficial to the brokers.

00;19;41;00 - 00;20;01;14

Ryan Ross

So I think podcasts are really important to do, because any broker that wants to create marketing material or just create more sales inflow for themselves, visibility, you need to create visibility. They need to create authority. A podcast is a great way to do that. And I would say it's the most low drag way to do that as well, because all you need is a phone.

00;20;01;16 - 00;20;21;24

Ryan Ross

And there's a scene in the book where one of the characters he lands a podcast or an interview with this guy that he's wanted to speak with for a long time, and his marketing assistant's like, record that. So he sits down, he asks some questions, he puts his phone down. That's all you need to do, right? You put your phone down and say, I'm going to record this conversation.

00;20;21;24 - 00;20;40;11

Ryan Ross

You take that audio file, you make a Spotify account, you upload it to the Spotify account, you press publish, which is a really hard thing to do because it there's an element of vulnerability when you put anything out. Oh yeah. Absolutely right. You're talking no guys from radio 22, you know, you know every time you're like, oh is it ready to go make it ready to go.

00;20;40;11 - 00;21;03;11

Ryan Ross

Just push the button. People might not listen to the beginning. You might need to push it out to people in the beginning. But having a conversation on something that you are an authority figure on or at least you know a little bit about it, right? Having a conversation with friends is even easier, because you can banter for a little while and then say, I want to talk about these five things in my podcast interview.

00;21;03;11 - 00;21;23;15

Ryan Ross

Or maybe it's a shorter version, right? Interviews can be half an hour, or they can be a five minute podcast talking about, I want to talk about PBM transparency and how to analyze an EOB explanation of benefits, things like that. You can have three points that you want to talk about any five minutes you put that on a podcast, but that's only the first step.

00;21;23;17 - 00;21;42;05

Ryan Ross

Then you need to send it to people, right? I recommend people define what's called a dream 100. This is the 100 list of 100 people that you would do perfect with. And in the book I talk about you do, I took a talk about a niche. Right. The guy's niche in the book is manufacturing I because he knows about manufacturers.

00;21;42;06 - 00;21;43;00

Cary Hall

He made pasta.

00;21;43;04 - 00;21;53;25

Ryan Ross

He made pasta. He was a pasta manufacturer. But so many brokers, if they say like I am the broker for associations, right. Our friend John Kuhlmann does that. That's what his thing is.

00;21;54;00 - 00;21;56;14

Cary Hall

He’s really good at it probably. And he's also in the book.

00;21;56;14 - 00;22;06;06

Ryan Ross

By the way. He probably has other types of clients. But if you focus on the niche, what you focus on expands, because then you say, this is who I am for, right? You probably.

00;22;06;12 - 00;22;23;26

Cary Hall

And you become the authority figure. And John has become an authority figure in the association, and you work with him, both of you. So let's segue to something because he threw it out there. But one of the most complicated, misunderstood things out there is the PBM. First of all, tell what a PBM Steve is.

00;22;23;28 - 00;22;32;20

Stephen Combs

It's a pharmacy benefit manager as part of the health plan that manages all the prescriptions and that can eat up a lot of the claims. I mean, sometimes over half.

00;22;32;27 - 00;22;34;27

Cary Hall

Okay. Explain that.

00;22;34;29 - 00;22;58;07

Stephen Combs

Yeah. So a pharmacy like generic drugs aren't a big deal. Even the brand name drugs are not a big deal. Where it comes into play is there's TV, commercial drugs, the specialty medications. Yep. The ones that, you know, they're paying millions of dollars for ads, work because they have a patent on it and they can charge whatever. There's some examples, such as Stelara, costs like $27,000 every fill, which can be every other month.

00;22;58;10 - 00;23;07;14

Stephen Combs

I mean, who can really afford that as an employee or an employer? One thing that people don't realize is there's also massive rebates.

00;23;07;17 - 00;23;29;00

Cary Hall

That's the hidden part of the industry, and people do not understand. Yeah. So let's talk about that because there's a lot of money there under the table that the employer doesn't see if they're not, if the broker is not smart enough to know how to get those rebates. Okay. Or there's a part in the book actually where I think Ryan talks about, the asking for the asking you.

00;23;29;00 - 00;23;41;12

Cary Hall

He shake his head, just asking for the printout from the carrier on the rebates. And what he gets is a cut and pasted spreadsheet that doesn't tell him anything. Okay, because that's not something they want to disclose. So talk about it.

00;23;41;18 - 00;23;56;28

Stephen Combs

So large groups have got rebates forever. I mean they get them for if you have 500 plus employees, maybe a thousand plus any PBM is going to give you rebates if they want the business. There's no volume for them to make sense. Small groups and middle sized groups historically have never seen them.

00;23;56;28 - 00;23;58;12

Cary Hall

No, and they don't know what they are.

00;23;58;12 - 00;24;09;14

Stephen Combs

They don’t know what they are, until now. So now there's PBMs that operate just on basically like an admin fee. They charge an administrative fee, but all the rebates are passed through back to the employer.

00;24;09;14 - 00;24;10;28

Cary Hall

and they're not for profit basically.

00;24;10;29 - 00;24;17;28

Stephen Combs

Pretty much exactly. And those, those like Stelara, 27 grand after rebates it’s only about four grand. It's a big swing.

00;24;17;28 - 00;24;39;01

Cary Hall

Yeah it is a big swing. So so at Detego with our Population Science Management program for GigCare, we have Script Aid which is our own PBM. And we so we do three things. We do a drug importation okay. So if for that particular drug, if we brought it in from Canada would probably be 3 or $4000.

00;24;39;02 - 00;25;03;23

Cary Hall

If that, maybe less. Okay. So we do it that way. We do it with drugs that are on the formulary. If they're expensive and even if they're not on the formulary, we don't tell you: “Well, that's your problem”. Now you contrast that with the BUCA ACA plan. The broker's got no solution for that. No. Okay. Well our plan has the solution because we go out and we bring that drug in and we don't make them pay the difference is what it is, and we bring it in.

00;25;03;28 - 00;25;30;17

Cary Hall

The other thing we do is foundational assistance. And that's a big deal, okay. Because what 90% of the people don't know and most of the brokers don't know or don't know how to do it, is to file for foundational assistance. That's all stuff that you guys do. So that foundational assistance means, just so you understand the audience out there and brokers, if you've never heard of it, okay, if you need a growth hormone drug and it's $100,000 a year, you're probably not able to afford that unless you're a multi-millionaire.

00;25;30;23 - 00;25;47;23

Cary Hall

But if you are working with the carrier, like in our case Detego and Population Science Management, GigCare. We actually have our own nurses at Script Aide to go out and do the paperwork, get the medication, have it drop shipped to your door. And that's exactly what you're talking about, is it not correct?

00;25;47;23 - 00;25;55;05

Stephen Combs

Yeah. They call them patient assistance programs. And so but most of our carriers offer them as well. And the member typically gives them for free.

00;25;55;05 - 00;25;56;10

Cary Hall

That's exactly right.

00;25;56;13 - 00;26;13;25

Stephen Combs

Yeah. More times than not it's free. Yeah. We have some carriers that do it very gently where, you know, hey, you can get the medication through your health plan, but it's going to be your deductible and coinsurance. Or we can source from Canada or New Zealand or do a PAP or patient assistance program. And this is $0 co-pay.

00;26;13;27 - 00;26;18;22

Stephen Combs

Some of our carriers use a hammer instead of a scalpel.

00;26;18;24 - 00;26;21;14

Cary Hall

I'm gonna, I'm afraid to ask you where we come in. But anyway, go ahead.

00;26;21;20 - 00;26;39;07

Stephen Combs

So, this is not you guys, but. But what they do is. So they'll cover the medication no matter what. On a 30 day to 60 day supply. So there's no disruption in care, right? But then after that, the member then is required to do the program right. They're required to go through the advocacy program to get the medication and they get it for free.

00;26;39;07 - 00;27;02;10

Stephen Combs

Right? Okay. Now, if they can't source internationally or they can't do an assistance program, then they do get it through the health plan or they do cover it, but they have to go through those avenues first. And I do like that for the the clients that are willing to have a little bit of disruption, because if you're a group that's being just destroyed by high cost medications, these carriers can be a great solution.

00;27;02;10 - 00;27;19;18

Stephen Combs

But I just have to know, what are your needs? What is your risk tolerance? Is it you know, that you have some medications you want to reduce, and you want the employees to have the choice? Or do you want to, you know, make the employees go through the program? Again, it's not disruptive. They give them a 30 day to 60 day supply with plenty of time.

00;27;19;21 - 00;27;40;08

Cary Hall

That's correct. Yeah. Yeah okay. And so when you talk about these carriers you're talking about people very similar to what Detego, we're a TPA but we have our own plans. Talk about some of the other carriers you work with that are not the BUCA plans that are look, BUCA plans fit for some people. They don't fit for a lot of people and a lot of people are struggling with cost.

00;27;40;15 - 00;27;50;29

Cary Hall

And unfortunately, this is work. Okay. If if your broker's not willing to do the work, you're probably not gonna know there are alternatives out there. So talk about some of these other alternatives.

00;27;51;00 - 00;28;08;04

Stephen Combs

Yeah. So we have are they really fall into two buckets. We have the tech, you know, stack companies that are very AI based tech based. And that's going to be Angle Health, Arlo Health, Level Health. And those are the three real tech heavy vendors, Health In Tech as well. I was very tech focused. All the underwriting is done AI.

00;28;08;04 - 00;28;27;07

Stephen Combs

No health apps are required. Angle Health goes down to five lives. The other three go down to the ten lives. They all have prescription management tools. They're all do it a little bit differently. Health In Tech is the one that I like for the groups that are have a lot of high cost drugs because they use the hammer approach.

00;28;27;09 - 00;28;39;07

Stephen Combs

The rest use, the rest use the scalpel approach where it’s, hey, you have the choice, it's up to you. But that's what they do. And we have some more legacy carriers that are a little bit more well known to the population out there. We got TrustMark.

00;28;39;10 - 00;28;40;19

Cary Hall

I know TrustMark and used to work with them.

00;28;40;22 - 00;28;53;15

Stephen Combs

They're very good. We work with them a lot. We have all formerly All State Benefits now Nationwide Benefits. Yeah. Then we carry your Optimal Benefits. Yep. And then here's one that's maybe not well known per se, but Great American Insurance.

00;28;53;17 - 00;28;55;05

Cary Hall

I've heard of it. I don't know much about it.

00;28;55;05 - 00;28;57;21

Stephen Combs

Their reinsurance company, they've been around since the 1800s.

00;28;57;21 - 00;28;58;10

Cary Hall

That’s how I know them.

00;28;58;10 - 00;29;01;28

Stephen Combs

$33 billion in assets. So they're no joke?

00;29;02;00 - 00;29;02;19

Cary Hall

No, they are not.

00;29;02;19 - 00;29;09;29

Stephen Combs

But they've released a Small Group Level Funded plan, 2 to 99, Ten plus A underwriting. And the rates have just been phenomenal.

00;29;10;04 - 00;29;24;26

Cary Hall

So that is exactly why we're doing this show. What do I always say about this show? We're here to educate and inform. We just informed you and educated you. If you're a broker and you heard some of these names and you want access, you want to know how do I get involved? What do I do? This makes sense.

00;29;24;26 - 00;29;51;27

Cary Hall

I've got clients I need help with. Maybe I've got clients that I want to bring on board, but I can't because I don't have anything innovative. Go to the website BrokersBloc com BrokersBloc.com. We'll be right back after the break. Stay there. You're listening to America's Healthcare Advocate broadcasting coast to coast across the USA. We'll be right back.

00;29;51;29 - 00;30;12;05

Cary Hall

Welcome back. You're listening to America's Healthcare Advocate show broadcasting coast to coast across the USA here on the HIA Radio Network. You can find out more about us by going to the website AmericasHealthcareAdvocate.com. By the way, maybe you work in a medium to small size agency and you guys are struggling. You know, trying to add new clients or even trying to keep your book.

00;30;12;07 - 00;30;28;16

Cary Hall

This podcast is up on 16 podcast platforms. It's on YouTube. You can go to this whole show, you know, tell the owner of your agency, your brokerage. Hey, we need to connect with these guys. Well, why? Who are these guys? Well, go up and listen to the show. Go up and do the podcast. Go up and do the YouTube.

00;30;28;16 - 00;30;33;19

Cary Hall

We’ve got. What do we have, 643,000. Dave just said in our last count.

00;30;33;20 - 00;30;33;27

Dave

Nine.

00;30;33;29 - 00;30;52;10

Cary Hall

There we go. 649,000. See, I get it wrong every time. The point I'm making is you're never too old to learn. There's innovation out there. These two young men, they're young to me. Okay. Are really good at what they do. And I urge you, to take a moment.

00;30;52;11 - 00;31;05;05

Cary Hall

And if you're a broker out there, go to their website, BrokersBloc.com. All right. Let's talk a little bit about, Well, first let's talk about the Broker 300 Club because I think this is kind of cool. And what does that mean?

00;31;05;07 - 00;31;33;07

Stephen Combs

And what it is, it's an exclusive club for our brokers that are, you know, high level producers that are innovative. They know what they're doing in the industry using innovative carriers. And so what it is, is we're putting together a retreat. It's going to be in May of next year, and it's going to be for brokers to get together, congregate with the carriers, innovative carriers, and just have, you know, dedicated attention to learning the new products, processes, systems, networks, everything that's out there that they can offer to their clients.

00;31;33;10 - 00;31;39;07

Stephen Combs

And if you're a broker wanting to be innovative in 2026 and 2027, you definitely want to be a part of it.

00;31;39;09 - 00;32;06;15

Cary Hall

See? And what that reminds me of is back in the day, when Paredo, which is the largest captive in the country now, and Berkeley Hamilton captive when they would hold events, Paredo was probably the best at this. They would hold them, usually twice a year in Nashville. And the amount of information that got pumped out in those events, I mean, you know, when I first started with Paredo, I think there might have been 300 total clients and brokers combined by the time I left.

00;32;06;15 - 00;32;24;02

Cary Hall

I think it was up to I think it's 4000, now brokers. And I don't know how many clients have got involved. It's it's gotten enormous. Okay. Because Cavanaugh and Clayton, the guys that started was very much like you guys. They did something out of the box. Okay. Problem was you had to be 100 lives or more to qualify for it.

00;32;24;02 - 00;32;37;05

Cary Hall

Well, you know, for us, that was great. You know, we were in the self-funded market. But what you're offering now is a solution for brokers in the small group market. And one of you just mentioned one of your carriers goes down to five lives, correct?

00;32;37;05 - 00;32;38;29

Stephen Combs

Actually, several of them go down to two lives.

00;32;39;01 - 00;32;55;08

Cary Hall

Well that's it. And that's a big deal because there are a lot of mom pop shops out there that can't get health insurance, or they get it on the ACA plans. It's horrifically expensive. And this is an alternative for them. So you're you're educating the brokers on how to find those people, get them set up and help them do it.

00;32;55;08 - 00;32;55;24

Stephen Combs

Correct.

00;32;56;00 - 00;33;19;00

Cary Hall

Okay. Let's switch gears a little bit and then talk about the, the broker directory, because this is to the employer out there because unfortunately, you know, in this industry got a lot of lazy people just tell you how it is. Okay. You know, my philosophy was if you can't get in front of your client once a quarter just to tell them how things are going and see how they're doing, are they having problems?

00;33;19;00 - 00;33;36;11

Cary Hall

Are things going well for them? You know, there are there other employees happy? What's going on. Then I don't think you're doing your job. And unfortunately I think in this industry that doesn't happen a lot. And if you're an employer, I tell you, you're unhappy with a broker that shows up once a year with the spreadsheet and says, pick your poison.

00;33;36;13 - 00;33;47;01

Cary Hall

That's not the way this should work. Okay, so talk a little bit about your broker list and what what those are qualified brokers that are looking for alternatives to what's out there. Let's talk about that.

00;33;47;04 - 00;34;10;21

Stephen Combs

Absolutely. So not only have we vetted carriers we’re also vetting brokers as well. So if a client of a group is looking for a quality broker that can meet their needs, we have brokers in all shapes and shapes and sizes. We have brokers that work with small groups, large group, medium groups. So whatever your needs are, wherever you're located at geographically, we can actually source you a very highly vetted quality broker.

00;34;10;28 - 00;34;37;29

Cary Hall

And so, you know, maybe you'll give them a 2 or 3 and they can pick the one they like type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So that again that website is BrokersBloc.com BrokersBloc.com. There needs to be change in this industry okay. And you know what. What you're doing Ryan. You and Stephen, the two of you together, you know, to help brokers improve the process at the end of the day is really going to help the employer, and the employee with that experience.

00;34;37;29 - 00;35;03;06

Ryan Ross

Yes. Yeah. I mean, if one of the things that we try to do ourselves is figure out how can we systematize operations, and use AI to do that, and I think there's a big opportunity to help brokers do things in a similar way to actually how we do it, whether that's making creating content for those brokers. And then the brokers can also do a very similar thing for their clients to find their niche.

00;35;03;06 - 00;35;23;20

Ryan Ross

Right? But also figure out, okay, we use AI in different ways in order to streamline our operations because we're we're a lean team, right. But there's brokers in the similar situations, right? So it kind of the processes and the systemization funnels down to how the brokers can operate as well. So that's one of the things we can advise on as well.

00;35;23;23 - 00;35;41;28

Cary Hall

Yeah. You know in John Kuhlmann’s in the book and which is interesting, John's done a number of different radio shows with me. He's going to be back here next week, to do some more. But he works very closely with you guys, and has a lot of regard for what you're doing and innovates and uses a lot of your processes.

00;35;41;28 - 00;36;02;26

Cary Hall

And, you know, we talked about associations. Yeah. And how and I see the emails, the back and forth where you're working with him, all the various associations. But he is an example, at least to me, of a broker that found a niche. There are a lot of brokers out there in this space, and I'm I it's amazed me how it's just blown up.

00;36;02;28 - 00;36;21;11

Cary Hall

I mean, you know, Toolbelt, 1099 employees that work at Home Depot and, and Menards to come out, you buy a refrigerator, they're gonna you need to have the icemaker put in these guys come out or gals and put it in. And there's a whole association full of these guys with a 250,000 people in this thing. Yeah.

00;36;21;14 - 00;36;36;17

Cary Hall

NHRA. I happen to be a car guy. National Hot Rod Association. That blew me away. I'm like, he brought that. He goes, do you know who these guys said? Yeah, I've been to more NHRA races and you can possibly imagine. Okay. So I mean, it's amazing how many these are out there and you guys are assisting him.

00;36;36;21 - 00;36;54;24

Ryan Ross

Yeah. Well, you know, I think a lot of other brokers can think the same way that he's thinking, right. Like figuring out, okay, his niece's like associations. But the thing is, there's associations for so many things, right? One of our brokers, they are they focus on credit unions and non profits

00;36;54;24 - 00;36;55;05

Cary Hall

Interesting.

00;36;55;05 - 00;37;01;20

Ryan Ross

because these are all groups. Yeah. We were at a Texas Roadhouse the other night because I love Texas Roadhouse.

00;37;01;22 - 00;37;02;08

Ryan Ross

And we

00;37;02;08 - 00;37;04;18

Cary Hall

he actually eats at Texas Roadhouse. Great.

00;37;04;20 - 00;37;07;09

Cary Hall

Stephen not so much. So I'm just going to tell you. But anyway.

00;37;07;14 - 00;37;08;17

Ryan Ross

Actually I do okay.

00;37;08;17 - 00;37;08;28

Cary Hall

Okay.

00;37;08;28 - 00;37;28;04

Ryan Ross

It’s where he charges his Tesla. Yeah. So if you were in a Texas Roadhouse somewhere like oh I bet there's a restaurant association, of course. Or you could be a broker if you're a broker that's worked with 1 or 3 restaurants just because you found the business that way, think like, okay, what are the commonalities between my clients? And maybe they're a restaurant.

00;37;28;04 - 00;37;34;25

Ryan Ross

They're there's a restaurant association out there. You can be the broker for that restaurant association. Do things like that.

00;37;35;02 - 00;37;57;21

Cary Hall

Is that's exactly what I'm talking about okay. And that's why I think having these two young men here doing this show that we're going to do more of this, they've got they've got some great programs and we're going to be talking about these throughout the year. But this is why I wanted to do this today, because if I was that medium broker, that small broker who became a bigger broker because of this radio show back in the day before we had all of this AI and everything else.

00;37;57;28 - 00;38;13;24

Cary Hall

But the beauty of it is it's a tool now that's available. You just heard Ryan describe it. You heard Stephen talk about their their 300 club, what they're doing. I urge you to take a minute to connect with these guys and just listen to what they've got. You might be surprised what you learn and you might be surprised how they can help you.

00;38;14;00 - 00;38;35;00

Cary Hall

The website is BrokersBloc.com, bloc. BrokersBloc.com. Thank you both for being here, it was a great show today. Thank you. Appreciate you both. And now I leave you with this thought from Albert Einstein, the one who follows the crowd, will usually get no further than the crowd. The one who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever been.

00;38;35;02 - 00;38;51;27

Cary Hall

Remember, friends, it's a funny thing about life. If you refuse to accept anything but the very best, you most often get it. Thank you for listening to America's Healthcare Advocates Show. Broadcasting coast to coast across USA. Goodbye America.

00;38;51;29 - 00;38;58;20

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